<div dir="ltr">Thanks Jim, Robert, and Ed. I had no idea this was going to be a difficult question. Robert's point that this is a practical heuristic rather than a systematic examination of action is well taken, though the translation says "The causes of action are..." rather than the more qualified sense of "a way of thinking about" this or a heuristic. But, we do have to consider the context of the discussion (within a discussion of forensic address in a practical book on rhetoric), so perhaps that should be central to our understanding.<div><br></div><div>Ed's explanation that the word is physis makes me want to connect it to the physis-nomos controversy that so animates the sophists' (and others') binary. The source in this light is beyond human constructions or culture and fundamentally rooted in something universal.</div><div><br></div><div>Whether's he's invoking a fundamental aspect of human nature or offering a heuristic, I'm still at a loss for examples to illustrate "nature" as the cause of action that is relevant to forensic considerations. "The man shamelessly urinated in public because 'nature' called"? "The poor man was hungry so he stole the bread"? With new understandings of genetics, we could add "His extra chromosome made him violent." Undoubtedly KB would point out the paradox of substance makes nailing down the source of action in such cases difficult. Rhetorically identifying the source as physis would seem to be a good way to justify action that one might otherwise be held responsible for. On the other hand, when A later talks about bad men doing bad acts, lecherous men doing lecherous acts, it isn't clear to me whether those character traits are "natural" in this sense or not. (I recall that Isocrates had claimed that he couldn't make a bad seed good by teaching him morals, even if studying phronesis might help improve moral feeling.)</div><div><br></div><div>Hadn't heard about a new translation of the Rhetoric. I wonder what there is left to add to earlier translations.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div><br></div><div>Clarke</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 1:50 PM James Klumpp <<a href="mailto:jklumpp@umd.edu">jklumpp@umd.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
Thanks guys. I am passing this along to Clarke with thanks to him
for posing an interesting question. Our colleague Bob Wess weighed
in too.<br>
<br>
"Commentary on these seven causes of action appears on pp. 218-34 in
E. M. Cope, An Introduction to Aristotle's Rhetoric, London:
Macmillan, 1867. This commentary includes references to other works
by Aristotle, so that it provides substantial material on which to
draw in developing an interpretation of the passage.
<br>
<br>
"For Aristotle, nature is an internal principle of change (1369b1),
by contrast to the external principle of change involved in
something like building a house (wood would not become a house by
itself). Maybe this internal principle could be conceived as
encompassing Burkean "thinking of the body." Not sure.
"<br>
<br>
That seems consistent with Ed's notion. And it makes sense to me
that nature is the "oak is in the acorn" sense of things fulfilling
their telos. Yvonne in pondering this, raised the issue of whether
"appetite" was less physical (hunger or thirst) or more a
human-driven playing out of character. 1969b15 does make it seem
other than hunger or thirst. It seems to relate to the pursuit of
pleasure. For what it is worth I note Rhys Roberts in his
introduction classifies the first three causes as "involuntary" the
last four as voluntary. And A says "We do things voluntarily when
we do them consciously and without constraint." Clearly Roberts
interprets nature as outside consciousness or constraint which is
also consistent with our thinking here.<br>
<br>
And Gaines, thank you for pointing to the context in forensic. A
certainly writes this from a volitional notion of rhetoric so that
his notion of action here is a bit displaced from Burke's notion of
action as a constant ground of human life.<br>
<br>
Thanks again. Great to have such intellectual buddies.<br>
<br>
Jim K<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="m_3359087623005606297moz-cite-prefix">On 10/10/2018 1:50 PM, Gaines, Robert
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div id="m_3359087623005606297divtagdefaultwrapper" style="font-size:12pt;color:#000000;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif" dir="ltr">
<p>Dear Colleagues:</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I do not have anything definitive to say about this passage. <span style="font-size:12pt">However, I think </span><span style="font-size:12pt">it is</span><span style="font-size:12pt"> safe to
</span><span style="font-size:12pt">offer</span><span style="font-size:12pt"> two cautions about its</span><span style="font-size:12pt"> interpretation</span><span style="font-size:12pt">:</span></p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>1. Aristotle's purpose in this part of Rh. 1 (beginning
1.10.1; 1368b) is to discuss the premises from which it is
necessary to construct [rhetorical] syllogisms concerning
accusation and defense. Accordingly, as regards Aristotle's
list of causes for "all" human actions at 1.10.8 (1369a), he
is philosophically committed only to its utility in framing
syllogisms for forensic cases.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>2. Aristotle's list of causes at 1369a seems to mix
distinguishable levels of his own explanations for actions
throughout his corpus (see, e.g., levels of teleological,
rational, psychophysical causal, and physical causal
explanation in Charles,
<i>Aristotle's Philosophy of Action</i>, 1984). This
apparently supports the notion that the list is provided as a
summary heuristic for argument-finding about actions rather
than as a nuanced explanation of their nature.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Most cordially,</p>
<p>Robert</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div id="m_3359087623005606297Signature">
<div class="m_3359087623005606297BodyFragment"><font size="2"><span style="font-size:10pt">
<div class="m_3359087623005606297PlainText">Robert N. Gaines <br>
Professor of Communication Studies <br>
The University of Alabama<br>
203 Reese Phifer Hall<br>
Box 870172 <br>
Tuscaloosa, AL 35487-0172<br>
Phone 205-348-8074 <br>
<a class="m_3359087623005606297moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rngaines@ua.edu" target="_blank">rngaines@ua.edu</a> | <a class="m_3359087623005606297moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://robertgaines.academy" target="_blank">http://robertgaines.academy</a><br>
<br>
Volvito aestus</div>
</span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="m_3359087623005606297divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Edward
Schiappa <a class="m_3359087623005606297moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:schiappa@mit.edu" target="_blank"><schiappa@mit.edu></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 10, 2018 9:19:52 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> James Klumpp<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Gaines, Robert<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [KB] Causes of Action</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>Jim: The Greek word Aristotle uses here translated as
“nature” is <i>
physis</i>. I do not have Grimaldi’s Commentary available;
that would be a place I would go to see if there is any
discussion of the passage. There is a new translation of A’s
<i>Rhetoric</i> by C.D.C. Reeve that has a couple of
lengthy footnotes about the section this quote is from on
Reeve’s pages 225-226. Most of the discussion, however, is
about the causes other than nature.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The sentence quoted is a preview; A then proceeds
to discuss each cause.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There is a bit of explanation further in the
passage (1369a35) about nature. Reeve’s translation is
“those that are by nature are the ones whose cause is within
themselves and is orderly” and this is contrasted to those
caused by force. Kennedy’s translation is similar: “[Things
that happen] “by nature are those whose cause is in
themselves and ordained; for the result is always or for the
most part similar.”</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So the only thing I can say with confidence is
that appetites are treated quite distinctly. Perhaps Bob
has a brighter light to shed on the passage.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ed<br>
<div><br>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Oct 9, 2018, at 3:24 PM, James Klumpp
<<a href="mailto:jklumpp@umd.edu" target="_blank">jklumpp@umd.edu</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="m_3359087623005606297Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">A
wonderful question this. Any ideas from my
favorite classical scholars?<br>
<br>
Jim K<br>
<div class="m_3359087623005606297moz-forward-container"><br>
<br>
-------- Forwarded Message --------
<table class="m_3359087623005606297moz-email-headers-table" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<th nowrap valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">Subject:
</th>
<td>[KB] Causes of Action</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th nowrap valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">Date: </th>
<td>Tue, 9 Oct 2018 12:36:45
-0500</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th nowrap valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">From: </th>
<td>Clarke Rountree <a class="m_3359087623005606297moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rountrj@uah.edu" target="_blank">
<rountrj@uah.edu></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th nowrap valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">To: </th>
<td><a class="m_3359087623005606297moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:kb@kbjournal.org" target="_blank">kb@kbjournal.org</a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">Dear Burkelers:
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have a question concerning
Aristotelian action (about which I have no
recollection whether Burke commented upon
it). In the Rhetoric, Aristotle (1369)
claims that all actions are due to one of
seven causes: chance, nature, compulsion,
habit, reasoning, anger, or appetite.
(Surely Burke mentions this somewhere!) I'm
trying to figure out what he means by
"nature." Someone online suggests things
like thirst are nature, but that could be
appetite, perhaps. On the other hand,
appetite seems aimed at seeking pleasure,
which slaking thirst would do only in a
minimal kind of way.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Anyone have insight into what
Aristotle means here?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Clarke<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr" class="m_3359087623005606297gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Dr. Clarke
Rountree<br>
Professor of Communication
Arts</div>
<div>Associate Dean
for Recruitment and
Outreach for the College
of Arts, Humanities, and
Social Sciences<br>
212D CTC<br>
University of Alabama in
Huntsville<br>
Huntsville, AL 35899<br>
256-824-6646<br>
<a href="mailto:clarke.rountree@uah.edu" target="_blank">clarke.rountree@uah.edu</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<pre class="m_3359087623005606297moz-signature" cols="72">--
-------------
James F. Klumpp, Professor Emeritus
Department of Communication, University of Maryland
409 Upper Haw Dr., Mars Hill, NC 28754
Email: <a class="m_3359087623005606297moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jklumpp@umd.edu" target="_blank">jklumpp@umd.edu</a>
Voice: 828.689.4456
Website: <a class="m_3359087623005606297moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://terpconnect.umd.edu/%7Ejklumpp/home.htm" target="_blank">http://terpconnect.umd.edu/~jklumpp/home.htm</a></pre>
</div>
<span id="m_3359087623005606297cid:42091B17-FA92-430D-9528-8DB9199944D0@mit.edu"><Attached
Message Part.txt></span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="m_3359087623005606297moz-signature" cols="72">--
-------------
James F. Klumpp, Professor Emeritus
Department of Communication, University of Maryland
409 Upper Haw Dr., Mars Hill, NC 28754
Email: <a class="m_3359087623005606297moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jklumpp@umd.edu" target="_blank">jklumpp@umd.edu</a>
Voice: 828.689.4456
Website: <a class="m_3359087623005606297moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://terpconnect.umd.edu/~jklumpp/home.htm" target="_blank">http://terpconnect.umd.edu/~jklumpp/home.htm</a></pre>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Dr. Clarke Rountree<br>Professor of Communication Arts</div><div>Associate Dean for Recruitment and Outreach for the College of Arts, Humanities, and Social Sciences<br>212D CTC<br>University of Alabama in Huntsville<br>Huntsville, AL 35899<br>256-824-6646<br><a href="mailto:clarke.rountree@uah.edu" target="_blank">clarke.rountree@uah.edu</a></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>