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<p>Wow. Never saw it explained more concisely. Thanks, Stan. A most useful instructional metric (I mean "grammar" :). Plan to steal it, giving you credit of course!</p>
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<p>David<br>
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<div>David J. Tietge, Ph.D.</div>
<div>Associate Professor of English</div>
<div><font face="times new roman">Director of First-Year Composition<br>
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<div>Monmouth University<br>
(732) 571-3603<br>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> KB <kb-bounces@kbjournal.org> on behalf of Stan Lindsay <slindsa@yahoo.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 23, 2017 11:49 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jim Moore; kb@kbjournal.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [KB] Editing Redux</font>
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<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1485227235308_3519" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1485227235308_3528">Burkeans,</span></div>
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<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1485227235308_3519" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1485227235308_4278">I appreciate the efforts to simplify (or humble) the Pentad. After all, the book in which it is featured is called A "Grammar" of Motives. Stripped of
all its specifics, the Pentad functions something like the following (grammatical) sentence: "</span>The nominative noun (modified by adjective/s) verbed (modified by adverb/s) the accusative noun in the locative dative noun (modified by adjective/s) with
the instrumental dative noun (modified by adjective/s) in order to infinitive." It is void of specifics. In the "grammar" of the Pentad, the previous sentence would read, "The Agent Acted in the Scene by using the Agency in order to accomplish the Purpose."
Once again, void of specifics. The grammar by itself is neither positive nor negative--those positive or negative elements are introduced by specifying what belongs with each Pentadic term. It is not a taxonomy in any hierarchal sense, but in the sense
that the terms of the Pentad (like Noun, Verb, Adjective, Preposition, etc. of linguistic grammar) name the categories under which other specific words may be classified.</div>
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<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1485227235308_3519" dir="ltr">Stan</div>
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<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1485227235308_3355"> </div>
<div class="signature" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1485227235308_3359">Dr. Stan A. Lindsay, Ph.D.
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1485227235308_3361">Teaching Professor </div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1485227235308_3362">Professional Communication
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1485227235308_3517">College of Applied Studies </div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1485227235308_3516">Florida State University </div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1485227235308_3515">slindsay@pc.fsu.edu</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1485227235308_3388">http://www.stanlindsay.com</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1485227235308_3392">http://www.lindsayDIS.COM</div>
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<b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> Jim Moore <jimmijcat@hotmail.com><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> "kb@kbjournal.org" <kb@kbjournal.org>
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Monday, January 23, 2017 6:43 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [KB] Editing Redux<br>
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<div>Jim Klumpp wrote:</div>
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<div><span style="color:rgb(33,33,33); font-size:13.3333px">"Let the humble pentad do its work well. If </span><br clear="none" style="color:rgb(33,33,33); font-size:13.3333px">
<span style="color:rgb(33,33,33); font-size:13.3333px">we do, I think that we will have less chance of losing the point that </span><br clear="none" style="color:rgb(33,33,33); font-size:13.3333px">
<span style="color:rgb(33,33,33); font-size:13.3333px">the pentad was posited for in the first place: to capture ways that </span><br clear="none" style="color:rgb(33,33,33); font-size:13.3333px">
<span style="color:rgb(33,33,33); font-size:13.3333px">symbolic accounts carve up the world differently."</span><br clear="none">
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<div><font color="#212121"><span style="font-size:13.3333px">Jim Moore responds:</span></font></div>
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<div><font color="#212121"><span style="font-size:13.3333px">Back in the day, my Burkean prof put it this way: the pentad is not a taxonomy. Rather, it is a heuristic designed to function as Prof. Klumpp has adumbrated. I agree with Jim K. that incorporating
the term Trouble into pentadic analysis will add little, if anything, to the pentad's power as a heuristic. The idea that "Trouble" is somehow "missing" from the pentad seems tacitly to attempt to give the pentad purely objective descriptive accuracy that
Burke did not claim for it.</span></font></div>
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</span></font></div>
<div><font color="#212121"><span style="font-size:13.3333px">Burke's eventual division of Agency into Means/Attitude served a different purpose: to emphasize the coexistence of instrumental and postural Agencies, which sometimes may be useful to construe as discrete.
"Trouble" seems to be an attempt put another scoop on the ice cream cone, a scoop that is already implied by the presence of the Agent (an actor, not just a mover) amid the other four or five scoops. That needless scoop leaves the ice cream in danger of
tumbling with only questionable benefit to be derived from the new scoop.</span></font></div>
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<div><font color="#212121"><span style="font-size:13.3333px">I love rocky road,</span></font></div>
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<div><font color="#212121"><span style="font-size:13.3333px">Jim</span></font></div>
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<div id="yiv5221686486x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> KB <kb-bounces@kbjournal.org> on behalf of James Klumpp <jklumpp@umd.edu><br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> January 23, 2017 1:57:41 PM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> kb@kbjournal.org; edwardcappel@frontier.com<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> [KB] Editing Redux</font>
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<div class="yiv5221686486PlainText">I am not certain that I disagree at all with Ed Appel. But I do think
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that we err when we try to overburden the pentad by loading all Burkean <br clear="none">
insights on it. Trouble is one of those. We need to remember that the <br clear="none">
pentad was a vocabulary designed to work with variety of accounts. <br clear="none">
"This book is concerned with the basic forms of thought which, in <br clear="none">
accordance with the nature of the world as all men experience it, are <br clear="none">
exemplified in the attributing of motives. . . We shall use five terms <br clear="none">
as generating principle for our investigation. In a rounded statement <br clear="none">
about motives . . ." Now when we accomplish this task of understanding <br clear="none">
the ways in which the symbol using animal attributes motives, provides <br clear="none">
symbolic accounts of situations, we have not said all that is to be <br clear="none">
said. Very well. Why does the pentad need to capture all of the world's <br clear="none">
insight? Let Ed say that the dramatistic process is necessary to a <br clear="none">
fuller statement about diachronic narrative (and to human conflict). I <br clear="none">
am fine with that. I agree. And, drama is a natural metaphor because, <br clear="none">
Burke argues elsewhere, the state of Babel creates disorder and <br clear="none">
conflict, as Jim Moore adds. But let us not lose sight of the necessary <br clear="none">
work that the pentad does so well -- illuminating the variety of motives <br clear="none">
that mark the Babel of human speech. Let it do that work well and let <br clear="none">
other insights take that necessary work and proceed further in the human <br clear="none">
drama.<br clear="none">
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In short, the addition of Trouble into the pentad does not enhance its <br clear="none">
ability to clarify accounts, in my judgment. Save the insights that <br clear="none">
flow from Trouble and the many other terms of disorder that Ed has <br clear="none">
cataloged for a fuller discussion of the rich complex of terminologies <br clear="none">
of which the pentad is one. Let the humble pentad do its work well. If <br clear="none">
we do, I think that we will have less chance of losing the point that <br clear="none">
the pentad was posited for in the first place: to capture ways that <br clear="none">
symbolic accounts carve up the world differently.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Jim Klumpp<br clear="none">
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-- <br clear="none">
-------------<br clear="none">
James F. Klumpp, Professor Emeritus<br clear="none">
Department of Communication, University of Maryland<br clear="none">
409 Upper Haw Dr., Mars Hill, NC 28754<br clear="none">
Email: jklumpp@umd.edu<br clear="none">
Voice: 828.689.4456<br clear="none">
Website: <a id="LPlnk785322" href="http://terpconnect.umd.edu/~jklumpp/home.htm" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">
http://terpconnect.umd.edu/~jklumpp/home.htm</a><br clear="none">
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